Ordo Missae of Paul VI per se valid, probably


Proving Novus Ordo is, per se, valid, though some accessory disciplines of Buenos Aires diocese are illicit:

http://tradcats.blogspot.com/2009/08/miracles-still-happen.html - yep, my immediate source is a blog by Trad Catholic homeschoolers who do not assist at "Novus Ordo" Masses.

While double checking veracity of this, there are some other reasons for accepting main stream Catholic rite: Fr. John Tolkien, son of JRR, and this priest disciple of St Maximilian Kolbe. As well as Tom Zimmer.

UPDATE, St Joseph's day 2011:

Supposing you are right and New Rite Episcopal Ordanations are not valid:

1) if Benedect XVI were to be ordained bishop sub conditione by Mgr Dolan or by Mgr Fellay, would his real papacy start that day so that problematic words before it would be discounted?

2) could the New Mass be valid if offered by a priest who received ordination from a bishop consecrated in the Old Rite? I think specifically of the Eucharistic Miracle in Buenos Aires. The mishandling of the Host that provoked it could not very well have happened like that in a Tridentine Mass. I did contact the Episcopacy of Buenos Aires and have got no answer.

= Query submitted to the site Traditionalmass.Org

UPDATE 29th March:

I got this answer:

On Mar 19, 2011, = at 6:07 AM, Hans-Georg Lundahl wrote:

= Hans-Georg Lundahl wrote:

Supposing you are right and = New Rite Episcopal Ordanations are not valid: 1) if Benedect XVI were to = be ordained bishop sub conditione by Mgr Dolan or by Mgr Fellay, would = his real papacy start that day so that problematic words before it would = be discounted?


No, because a = cardinal-priest who is elected pope (e.g., Gregory XVI) receives = jurisdiction from the moment he accepts election, not after the = episcopal consecration that follows.

2) could the New Mass be valid if offered by a priest = who received ordination from a bishop consecrated in the Old = Rite?


Not if he uses the formulas = prescribed in the Novus Ordo books.

I discuss = the difficulties with these formulas in my recent book on the New Mass. = (See below for information on how to order a = copy.)

Have a blessed Lent and Holy = Week!

In Xto,


-- = Father Cekada

Link offered:

468 pages. = $24.95
View excerpts and order = from
http://www.philotheapress.com/store/work-of-human-hands/
_________
According to Tissier de Mallerais, I suppose, it could have happened if the priest was ordained by a bishop ordained as such before 1970. As for the bishops of the diocese, I still - 10th of May 2011 - have no answer either confirming or denying this. Thus also no details about who ordained the priest or whether he stayed in Novus Ordo or not./HGL __________

For those who like me lack access to the book, here is an interview with Father Cekada about it. Below extract quotes with my comments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJjhjA0epuk

"so many options" - using the most traditional ones may be a way to keep a right idea
that does not mean priests themselves using or ordained by bishops using the wrong options can be trusted

"first one always hopes that things will get better" - well, so do I

"communion in the hand" - precisely what Tom Zimmer called diabolical (and P Z Myers illdeeds would probably have been very hard to impossible to commit without it)

"problems with the propers" - positive or negative?

I already knew negative problems, like suppression of Sts Christopher and Barbara.

One Barbro Brilioth (pronounce -t, the th is purely orthographic) became Russian Orthodox after Liturgic reform ousted St Barbara.

Positive? Not discovered myself. Interests me.

Dom Prosper Guéranger? Wonderful! The very reason to prefer Pius V to Paul VI, even if latter be/is valid.