samedi 16 mai 2009

Orthodox influence on R. Catholicism, 20th C. (link in title)



In the link provided, the question was stated as better answered by Roman Catholics. I am both.


More orthodox:
  • St. Pius X makes communion earlier, and once gives communion to one age four.
  • Pius XII recognises Episcopacy as a true degree of priesthood, and episcopal consecration as a true sacrament, not a mere sacramental.
  • He also states that imposition of hands belongs to the form of priesthood
  • In condemning Feeney, he recognises that there is patristic support for "salvation outside the Church"
  • When Paul VI reconciles same Feeney without recantation, he recognises that there is also patristic support for "no salvation outside the Church"
  • Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia was long seen as condemning anyone outside communion with a Pope of Old Rome to non-ecclesialilty. Ubi episcopus, ibi ecclesia has been maintained:
    • by Pius XII ordering Catholics unable to communicate with R. C. priests to receive from Orthodox
    • by Lumen Gentium (Vatican II)
    • by Traditionalists, at least in practise, since most of them are somewhat at odds with papacy in Vatican, and most of them do not have alternative Popes: bishop Marcel Lefebvre says a bishop may oppose a legitimate but non-traditional pope, abbé de Nantes that popes who do not wish to preserve tradition, are popes materially but not formally, many - among them many feeneyites acting as if truly accepting Decretum ad Armenos as dogma - state that popes deviating from tradition are heretics and non-popes

  • standing has been reintroduced as a gesture or posture of prayer
  • communion under both species (local variation)
  • lately baptism through three full immersions (local variation)
  • lastly a few things, where the influence might go to either side:
    • fighting modernism in 19th C - Pius IX and Konstantin Pobodonostev are up against same kind of superidealist heretics
    • suffering martyrdom and persecutions in the 20th C - Communists in Russia, Mexico, Spain, East States, China; Nazis in Germany, Poland, even France; Ustashi as over Serbian minority in Croatia (which is not a traditionally R. C. or Habsburg policy in that area - the Serbians having settled peacefully under Austrian rule after Ottoman persecution)
    • Traditionalists opposing official Churches seen as compromising with Communism (ROCOR and other paleohimerites after Russian revolution, diverse traditionalist opposition after Vatican II)
    • last few years, now 21st C, lifting of excommunications between ROCOR/Patriarchate of Moscow, between Rome and FSSPX.

Less orthodox:
  • First Communion is by that act of Pius X dissociated from confirmation/chrismation.
  • Mediator Dei, by Pius XII states that the Pope has the right to any kind of liturgic remanagement, whatever the age of the devotional practise
  • this is put into practise by the liturgic reform of 1970, where the canon of the Mass is remade
  • the new offertory is a prayer of the Judaic religion, with one word or phrase added in each prayer
  • the Good Friday prayers for non-Catholics have been changed
  • in the remade liturgy the priest may face west (local variation), like the kohanim of the Old Covenant
  • in the remade liturgy communion has been given in the hands of faithfull under circumstances where sacrilege was to be feared and has in fact been committed (local variation)
  • praying with non-Christians, as in Assisi 1986 (local event, but globally announced)
  • women have been ordained by some "alternative Catholicisms", like the Church of Jean-Grégoire XVII (not in RCC as in communion with present day Vatican)
  • also not in RCC as in communion with present day Vatican: Pius XIII/Fr. Pulvermacher (elected by electronic conclave, priest and not bishop at election) has claimed to authorise another priest (also not bishop) to make any ordinations, including episcopal ones - in reversal of Pius XII's decission, if not to the letter, at least to the overtly understandable meaning
  • fasting discipline has been relaxed, both Eucharistic fasting (Orthodox fast from Great Vespers to communion on Sunday, R. Catholics from midnight to communion, Pius XII reduced obligatory fasting to three hours, now it is one hour; annual fasting has been reduced to two compulsory days, Ash Wednesday and Good Friday
  • Friday Abstinence is practised even during the Christmas days and the Bright Week, and as for fasting dispensations, none are applicable on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday
  • many Saints have had their days removed (St. Christopher, St. Barbara ...)
  • Relics and Sacred Art or Vessels or Vestments have been removed from Churches (local variation, esp. France, Netherlands, US, et c).

4 commentaires:

Hans Lundahl a dit…

Romans 8:28 And we know that to them that love God, all things work together unto good, to such as, according to his purpose, are called to be saints. 29 For whom he foreknew, he also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Son; that he might be the firstborn amongst many brethren. 30 And whom he predestinated, them he also called. And whom he called, them he also justified. And whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Anonyme a dit…

On first two items on "more orthodox": it was not a matter of a novum in R. C. theology, only of deciding between rival theologoumena in favour of the Orthodox.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Hans Georg Lundahl a dit…

"this is put into practise by the liturgic reform of 1970, where the canon of the Mass is remade"

This does not refer to what is to the left, imposition of hands, but what is above, namely "Mediator Dei, by Pius XII states that the Pope has the right to any kind of liturgic remanagement, whatever the age of the devotional practise".

Sorry for possible lack of clarity.

Btw, since writing the article, I decided for Roman Catholic exclusively.

Hans Georg Lundahl a dit…

And also, that "liturgic reform of 1970" and possibly even Mediator Dei are not really Roman Catholic.